The inevitable questions I keep getting are around what is what, so I've put this "quick list" together.
If you see an error, or have some data to contribute, please reply - I will review the data, then update/amend to keep this list correct. Note that some things are very subjective, especially "typical gains" and are meant as a rough gauge.
#1 rule here still has to be: If you're under 21, IT IS A HUGE MISTAKE TO USE ANY HORMONE. *** PLEASE *** DO NOT BE STUPID!!!
Also note that the 'typical gains' reflect people eating approximately TWICE their normal 'bulk' diet.
M1T (methyl 1 testosterone)
BAD FOR LIVER: EXTREMELY.
BLOOD PRESSURE: INCREASES.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: SERIOUS.
SEX DRIVE: KILLS
MOOD: FLU - You feel like you have the "flu" from what I've heard
WATER RETENTION/"SWELLING" - expect to lose 1/3 of "gains".
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 10-15 lbs.
GAINS START: 4 days.
TESTES SHUTDOWN: within 2-3 days.
HALF-LIFE: 8 hours?
BAD FOR LIVER: YES, less than M1T
BLOOD PRESSURE: VARIES, MIGHT INCREASE.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: VARIES, CAN BE SERIOUS. Less than M1T.
SEX DRIVE: VARIES, MIGHT INCREASE, TENDS TO DECREASE
MOOD: HANGOVER (some), WELL-BEING (others)
WATER LOSS - dehydration is a real issue.
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 7-10 lbs.
GAINS START: 10 days.
GAINS STOP: 3 weeks.
MINIMAL ESTROGEN CONVERSION
TESTES SHUTDOWN: slow progression, 10-20 days?
BAD FOR LIVER: MAYBE*.
SEX DRIVE: INCREASES.
MOOD: GOOD.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: data unreliable.
HALF-LIFE: very low, not detectable within 5 days stopping
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 4-6 lbs.
BELLY FAT LOSS: VARIES.
NO "SWELLING"
GAINS START: 5 days.
* - studies on athletes using Oral Turinabol at 10mg/day for 6 weeks showed zero liver issues, nevertheless methylation is always a concern for the liver
Ergomax (Pheramax) - Methylated
BAD FOR LIVER: YES.
BLOOD PRESSURE: VERY HIGH - NOSE BLEEDS
SEX DRIVE: VARIES, KILLS IN MOST.
MOOD: ?.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: YES.
HALF-LIFE: 8 hours
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 15-20 lbs.
BELLY FAT LOSS: Mild.
WATER BLOAT - HEAVY
HIGHLY ANDROGENIC
HAIR LOSS VERY COMMON
PROSTATE SWELLING/PAIN CAN OCCUR
TESTES SHUTDOWN: 2-3 days.
GAINS START: 2 days.
TYPICAL CYCLE:
Week 1 – 10mg / day
Week 2 – 20mg / day
Week 3 - 30mg / day
Week 4 – 30mg / day
max LMG - Unmethylated Ergomax
(X-Mass, Revolt, similar to RU-486, the "abortion pill"
GAINS: 2-10 lbs
LIVER: Much less harsh/toxic than Ergomax, thus less effective
Otherwise much the same
Methyl-1P THIS IS FREAKIN' BIRTH CONTROL! STAY OFF!!
BAD FOR LIVER: No.
SEX DRIVE: COMPLETELY KILLS
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: data unreliable, seems not
GAINS (WHEN STACKED WITH METHLY-1A): Varied, 6-10 common
"Cutters"
- these are used for fat loss with muscle retention but not for growth
Prostanozol, Mega Zol
(similar to methylated Winstrol akak "Winny"/Stanozolol - the one Ben Johnson and Barry Bonds were busted for)
BAD FOR LIVER: YES.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: YES, MUCH LESS THAN M1T
SEX DRIVE: No effect for most, TOTAL LOSS for some
NO "SWELLING"
SOME HAIR LOSS
PROSTATE ISSUES REPORTED
TYPICAL CYCLE:
Week 1 - 75 mg / day
Week 2 - 100 mg / day
Week 3 - 150 mg / day
Week 4 - 150 mg / day
Week 5 - 200 mg / day
data is low
Used for reparitioning - e.g. to keep body weight the same but 'replace' body fat with muscle
TYPICAL CYCLE (that works): 75mg/75mg/100mg/100mg
Methoxy TRN
Mega TRN = 17b-methoxy-testosterone (similar to 4AD)
Usually combined with Methoxy TST
TYPICAL CYCLE:
6mgs(3caps)m-tst
4mgs(2caps)m-trn
data is low
PROSTATE PROBLEMS VERY LIKELY TO TRIGGER
HAIR LOSS VERY LIKELY
It's not "you are what you eat," but "you are what you're able to digest and assimilate."
— DarkAngel Find me on MySpace
I am getting so many questions about the effects of steroids, is M1T a steroid, what's the risks and such..well I can't answer all of that but this is what I know from those guys who I have been chatting with over the last couple of years who are using.
#1 - if you're going to be using this stuff, know straight up: they are NOT supplements, they are NOT creatine, this is the real stuff. EITHER TREAT IT DAMN SERIOUS OR STAY THE !@#$ AWAY FROM IT. It WORKS to add mass, no question - M1T is the king there, Superdrol (also known as Methy drol, see above) is about even with dbol (though less estrogen side effects), Ergo LMG is a third place. TRN/TST will lean you out like no tomorrow. I am seeing three friends make unbelievable transformations to their physiques...but note I am saying they KEEP making the transforms. They make, they lose, repeat...
#1A - "Being serious" means you do NOT drink, you do NOT do anything else to the body.
Let's put this out in theso it's very very clear: IF YOU DRINK USING METHYLATED PROHORMONES YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE. YOU CAN DIE. PEOPLE DO DIE.
Serious also means you DO YOUR PCT after the steroid cycle: Post Cycle Therapy. If you don't know what that is, let's talk about WHY you would need it. Ramming your body full with super-human levels of hormones means your body KNOWS its balance is WAY out of whack.
It will JAM the brakes on HARD. You get "shut down" - your own testosterone stops being made and your estrogen/estradiol/cortisol get told to "up production...AND FAST..." So after you take those hormones away, the brakes STAY jammed on the "build you up" hormones but production's in FULL SWING on the "give you a fat ass, give you boobs, burn the muscle" hormones. So you will have as much anabolic hormones being made by your body as say...a 90 year old grandmother.
Tribulus is not going to fix that (though it can help with libido crash, i.e. your sex drive loss). Some nice vitamins aren't going to either. We'll hit that another time but for now - if you don't know what it is, you DEFINITELY are not equipped to play with fire. You WILL get burned.
#1B - how fast are you "shut down"? I've seen blood tests from guys who are on M1T. Unreal how fast their own testosterone plummets - it's about TWO DAYS to zero out. Seriously. Superdrol I haven't found a definite answer - but I would guess it takes longer purely based upon how FAST guys blow up taking M1T vs. the somewhat lesser effect of Superdrol. Probably it's within 10 days.
#1C - Gyno. This is known as "bitch tits" - it happens as a result of the hormone imbalances. Nolva is typically used to suppress it - and that is a scary drug on its own, plus this strategy SUCKS. I have talked with a lot of guys who got the gyno AFTER they were already on the Nolva. This is because Nolva affects estrogen - that's part of the imbalance (flip side of testosterone, you could say). But gyno comes about also due to progesterone and Nolva won't affect that, you would need Dostinex or Bromo for that.
Confused? Sound scary. Good. This should be a wake-up call - it's some serious crap you're tampering with. And the crap party has just started...
#1D - Heart attacks. Why the grief about your lipids? Because good cholesterol keeps you alive - and the bad stuff will kill you. Young people start collecting bad cholesterol - and sooner or later that arterial plaque makes the gap in your blood vessels less and less. Your blood can't get through like it did - blood pressure increases (not good, increases your chance of a stroke). But if you get a small blood clot it plugs that tiny gap tight. So you have a complete stoppage of blood - and the cells on the other side die. It's called an infarct. It's what killed my mother.
"Run" lipid-killing compounds and you literally cut years off your life. Perhaps you can undo the damage. Perhaps not...but you had better be looking at taking on some very good cholesterol promoting compounds. Niacin at 1g right before bed time is very effective for this - but it can be harsh on your liver. Red yeast rice - same kind of deal, this is actually a cholesterol drug (the extract is anyway) but in fact this is now going to end up classified as a drug for high potency versions, or the compounds which are low potency don't qualify as a drug but only because they are of limited use.
Fish oil, sesamin / melting point, etc. are all friendly but this is like having a pee on a big campfire - you wont stop it. If you keep it up, you're going to have trouble.
One thing you can do to slow down this stomping on your lipid profile is to use creatine. Creatine enhances androgens anyway so if I can't convince you to do what you can for your health, consider it augmenting your compounds. Creatine generation by the body can leave behind some unpleasant middle compounds which affect your cholesterol, so supplementing with creatine avoids the need to make these middle parts - and protects your cholesterol. Unlike supplementing with hormones, there's no creatine shutdown.
#1E - liver damage. Liver enzymes go through the roof. That's the measure doctors use to asses liver damage. Now a case can be made that it's temporary - and that seems logical. SEEMS is not the same as PROVEN by the way and I have lost two friends to "spontaneous" liver failure. Young men who seemed healthy. And yes, people are more likely to really screw up their liver with over the counter pain killers but to believe that taking "milk thistle" and NAC will protect your liver...that's optimistic. Check the prostate cancer researchers (Snuffy Myers et al) and you will see that milk thistle may actually make liver problems WORSE. NOT PROVEN.
#2 - so how long is too long, how long can you "run" them? ("running" is slang for being "on" the juice, also known as "on cycle" M1T is very poisonous - which is why it works. Your liver can't break it down very well, so it can't "stop" it from continuing to circle through your bloodstream. And you will pay that price...because it also cannot stop your good cholesterol from being used up and your bad cholesterol from just accumulating. So while your liver being harmed is a real and legitimate concern, it's actually the lesser of the two evils chasing you down.
So it comes down to minimizing the lipid risk, reducing the liver damage that WILL accumulate and allowing the body to recover its natural run as fast as it could. For me, that means never running them at all - but if you've already made that choice then here's the options:
RUN EM LONG: you accumulate damage, crush that cholesterol. Some say there's no problem, they've done it. They take the M1T or Superdrol in the morning and none later in the day, allowing the body not to fully get shut down. Seems pretty optimistic...
2 - 4 weeks: the most common approach. Guys sometimes intend to go longer but they stop short anyway because they feel so terrible. Let's remember - some of the "power" compounds are "powerful" because they ARE POISON. I've seen references to M1T being like "rat poison". Not a bad analogy in my opinion. So would you really believe there is no long-term effect if you were to "run them long"???
That led to the idea of 2 weeks "on" and 2 weeks "off". Not a good plan. For one, that's not really long enough to get much muscle to build. That weight is mostly water weight. And time off must be AT LEAST as long as you were "on" - but more probably this should be 2-3 times as long as that, maybe 5-6 times when its M1T or Superdrol. I've read several accounts of people with seriously low "natural" testosterone production after doing 3 cycles of 3 weeks or so within a year. And a full 6 months after that - they are STILL low.
And there's one HELL of a lot of depression that shows up in long term lifters. Now they may be lifters because they have depression lurking in them...but...
Sounds an awful lot like long-term problems occurring...
Next BIG problem: prostate cancer. You say "so what, that's for old guys".
Guess what guys - if you live long enough and your genitals remain intact, this is another thing along with death and taxes you can look forward to - you'll get it. It's coming once you go far enough down that road, and Androgen use is putting the pedal to the metal on the car. You'll get it sooner rather than later.
And you can get it NOW. I just read in the paper last week about a new cancer centerng here. That's great but my jaw dropped to see that the guy pushing so hard for it was talking about how it would have been helpful to his brother who just died from prostate cancer. Age of death: 38. Same age I am.
Another guy who used to be a regular member of gaining-mass.com mentioned "@@#$ you're getting strong" when I told him I was finally getting my bench press over 300. My genetics BLOW for size and power, well hell that's life. On the other hand he decided to go for broke with any prohormone that seemed promising. At 2/3rds my age, he had less hair, a 42 inch waist, needed assistance to do chinups and had serious prostate problems.
Meanwhile I have CRAP genetics (ultimate hardgainer, and very stressful, over busy life) yet I did okay. Certainly got further than he did. So if you haven't got it all working well "by yourself" - these compounds aren't going to somehow change all that.
His results sound good? No.
So just taking superdrol or M1T will NOT make you big - you have to do all the rest "right".
Flip side: another guy got HUGE, he's smart and a good dude, I consider him a friend. He did it ALL right. Then he got sick, overactive immune system. (Side note there - they give you CATABOLIC steroids to help with that problem...and alarm bell went off in my head... ANABOLIC will INCREASE the chance/severity of the immune problem occurring?? Maybe...)
Anyway he got sick. So all the juice weight's gone after about a year. But the damage to the cardiovascular system, the advancing of the prostate cancer clock DO NOT GO AWAY.
Was it worth it?? Not in his case.
In others...maybe...but you still have to think "I'm going to lose this extra muscle one day and will I regret having shortened my life/health to do it"? That might be the real trade you're making.
It's not "you are what you eat," but "you are what you're able to digest and assimilate."
— DarkAngel Find me on MySpace
I am amazed at how many people are reading this quick summary. I may collect information on similar compounds and post it here.
I have been especially gratified to see references by several young men under the age of 20 who are making the decision to hold off on prohormone use and who have indicated it was this discussion that they based the decision upon.
Just to set the record straight - I am NOT 'anti-steroid'.
I am PRO-HEALTH. If the compounds made you big and had no health concerns - I would eat 'em like candy.
There's no moral issue there for me - it's a question of health.
It's not "you are what you eat," but "you are what you're able to digest and assimilate."
— DarkAngel Find me on MySpace
Brute/Volume training just flat-out WORKS. It's not easy but it's cutting edge science. Got a muscle plateau?Try it. this is rapidly becoming the favourite lifting method used by our members. Some report gains of 20 lbs in 2 months, others reach their personal bests on lifts within the first few weeks!
TkNeo 01 January 2007 Happy new year big guys malek256 01 January 2007 happy new year everybody! malek256 28 December 2006 Yo Serp! Happy New Year pal! TkNeo 26 December 2006 Sansoucie: Check out below. TkNeo 26 December 2006 http://www.gaining-mass.c om/readarticle.php?articl e_id=28
Brute/Volume training just flat-out WORKS. It's not easy but it's cutting edge science. Got a muscle plateau? Try it. this is rapidly becoming the favourite lifting method used by our members. Some report gains of 20 lbs in 2 months, others reach their personal bests on lifts within the first few weeks!
